Street legal MX5 with supercharger

[rudolf]

Hello !

My German skills is not good enough to fully understand the regulations in Germany regarding installing a supercharger in a MX5.

I have installed a FFS (Fast Forward Supercharger) kit (Eaton MP62) in my 1.8l 95 NA.
In Norway we have limited facilities for emission testing etc.
But we intend to fulfill the EU-directives.

I have been offered to measure the Exhaust emission on EURO Standards with my supercharger-kit at DEKRA facilities in DATC Klettwitz (near Dresden).
If the test is positive, DEKRA can provide a ECE with exhaust emission for my engine.

If this was a German car, would this be all that is needed to get the car street legal ?
Would a German car need more testing/certificates to get a official registration ?
Has any of you done this kind of testing at DEKRA ?

Looking forward to get some information from you.
Best regards
Erik
Oslo, Norwegen

[mx31]

Hi Erik,

>Would a German car need more testing/certificates to get a official registration ?

That depends on the power of the engine.

A Dyno-Run on a certified chassis dynamometer is needed, too.

You also need a noise emission certificate (measured by drive-by).
For cars prior to 1997, this is no real problem.

If the engine power exeeds +20% over maximum stock power, you need an approval
from Mazda, that the car can handle this power (what is kind of impossible).
The only possibility is to make a strength test and brake/handling test
(that is performed at a vehicle testing location by a professional driver,
under supervision of a TÜV/DEKRA engineer or other approved institute like Fraunhofer Institute).
Very expensive. And you pay for it, even if the test cannot be performed (due to rainy weather conditions).
Costs are about 10.000-15.000 Euros (for driving/handling and strength tests).

This kind of certifications usually depends on that specific car,
that was tested (exactly this VIN). To get a certificate for general
usage for a car model, you need a DIN/ISO9000 (or equal) Certification for your
installed Quality Management System - and some more bucks...

In former times (not to long ago) it was possible to show a
registration of an other car (same model) that had the same or more power,
to get your own car through. But this is not possible anymore (here in Germany).
If this still works in Norway, there is a chance that some of the loaded guys here can help you.


Do you want to have an official german registration,
or do you need the certificates for your local registration?

Some performance companys do the ECE-Certification
in Ireland. Much cheaper there. And kind of easier...


Regards,
Martin

[rudolf]

Thank you a lot Martin
This was a very good update.


This is what DEKRA wrote to me:

"
Its possible to measure the Exhaust emission on EURO Standards with you Supercharger KIT from US, but:

- its expensive (about 800,00 EUR netto)
- it can be done in DATC Klettwitz (in Germany near Dresden, you need to bring the car there)
- it takes one day (if everything is 100% ok; 7:00 - 16:00)
- we can not confirm, that the car fulfill the directives with that KIT before testing it (we will first see the results, after the test)
- if the test fail, you still have to pay the money!
"

I am not sure what sort of testing which will be performed during that whole day, but it must be more than just emission testing.

DEKRA also says:

"
If you get the test positive. We can provide a ece with exhaust emission for your engine and VIN! With that ECE, you should get a official registration.
"

That sounds very positive to me (they say I should get a official registration).
So this is the reason I am asking you these questions.

>
>In former times (not to long ago) it was possible to show a
>registration of an other car (same model) that had the same or
>more power,
>to get your own car through. But this is not possible anymore
>(here in Germany).
>If this still works in Norway, there is a chance that some of
>the loaded guys here can help you.
>

We need to test the specific car (same rules as in Germany)

>
>Do you want to have an official german registration,
>or do you need the certificates for your local registration?
>

I need the certificates for local registration, but I think the regulations are much the same in Norway and Germany.
No MX5 has been approved with supercharger/turbo in Norway the last ten years (except Mazdaspeed imported from US on special terms)


Again.
Thank you for this very useful information.

Regards,
Erik

[mx31]

>I am not sure what sort of testing which will be performed during
>that whole day, but it must be more than just emission testing.

This is performed in a closed room on a rolling dyno,
all the exhausted gas is collected and then examined in total volume.

Some reading stuff: http://tinyurl.com/cxwkrq (Directive 70/220/EEC, PDF-File)

The test itself is <1h. Preparation and Evaluation take the rest of the day...
Sometimes the test is done 2-3 times (for statistical deviations).

With that (passed) test, you take the first hurdle for registration.
The other major issue is the chassis/body strength test.


Regards,
Martin

[rudolf]

Thank you for the link.
(184 pages of quite interesting reading )

I wonder why DEKRA did not mentioned the chassis/body strength test.

From your information I conclude that NO MX5 with supercharger has got the ECE-Certification in Germany the last years.
Am I right ?

Erik

[Cane]

No really 100% legal one !

[rudolf]

>No really 100% legal one !
>
I am still a little bit confused
Are there any 99% ones.
(If so, what is missing ?)

Are there any stories about approved cars (tested in Ireland or whatever) ?
Any ideas about the future ?
Will there be launched any legal "kits" in Germany (TÜV-approved) ?

Erik

[Cane]

No, there are some that were legalized by some TÜV engineers that didn`t take it too serious.

Some say there will be a kit soon, but i don`t know much about it, sorry.

[Falk]

>No, there are some that were legalized by some TÜV engineers
>that didn`t take it too serious.
>

That can`t be said for all the legal supercharged MX-5s here!
...for some... sure

emmission:
There was a EU emmission test performed with a
MP62 supercharger on NB. The test is still vital.

strenght test:
There is a chassis strenght test available for
NA+NB up to 180PS.

don`t think you can take your FFS system to emmission
test laboratorys and it will meet the required rules.
I am very sure, you will never pass.
At least you need a lot of EMS programming + testing.

Try to use what is already available + individual dyno run.
If that is not enough for your needs, better forget it.

Falk

[rudolf]

>
>emmission:
>There was a EU emmission test performed with a
>MP62 supercharger on NB. The test is still vital.
>
>strenght test:
>There is a chassis strenght test available for
>NA+NB up to 180PS.
>

Is it possible to find a copy of these test documents ?
That could be very helpful.

>
>don`t think you can take your FFS system to emmission
>test laboratorys and it will meet the required rules.
>I am very sure, you will never pass.
>At least you need a lot of EMS programming + testing.
>

The FFS kit has passed the Californian Air Resources Board test (CARB).
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-617.pdf

But I dont know how the Californian test is compared to EU regulations.

>
>Try to use what is already available + individual dyno run.
>If that is not enough for your needs, better forget it.
>
>Falk
>


Again, thank you for very useful information.

Erik

[mx31]

Hi Erik,

this link points to the test cycles EURO and US: http://tinyurl.com/368n3gj

Here are the different emission limits: http://tinyurl.com/368n3gj
As I know, you cannot just convert one to the other, because the cycles differ.


Unfortunatly, the book is in german language.


Martin

[rudolf]

Thank you Martin.
(more than 800 more pages to read )

The FFS kit has passed the US FTP75 test with a good margin.

>
>As I know, you cannot just convert one to the other, because
>the cycles differ.
>

I can see that the tests are quite different (NEFZ <-> FTP75).
So it would be interesting to hear if anybody has passed the NEFZ with a MP62 supercharger.
If so, the setup would be of big interest as well.

Erik

[rudolf]

>
>There is a chassis strenght test available for
>NA+NB up to PS.
>
>
>Falk
>

Is there anybody who knows where I can find this strength test ?

Erik